Languages – further clarification needed

Ok everyone

after some deep soul searching, I have decided to leave the current rules as is… I also reshaped the question to completely brake down how a player gain languages.

Q: How to characters acquire their starting languages?

A: there are four steps in character creation which the character acquires languages.
1) Race: A character gains all Automatic Languages listed in their racial entry
2) When you chose your Nationality you chose 1 native language, see table 2-6 for a list of native languages.
3) After hero creation the character gains an additional number of languages equal to their passive logic, 1 of which must also be from their nation’s list of languages.
4) If the hero starts with ranks in linguistics they gain an additional language, 2 if they start with 3 ranks or more.

when Race lists “national language” excatly how many languages are granted?

it says Native Nation, and your hero gains 1 language, much must be chosen from their native nation

Leaving the rules alone just re-opens the same can of worms. Questions about the languages keep coming up. See below.

Q: How to characters acquire their starting languages?

A: there are four steps in character creation which the character acquires languages.
1) Race: A character gains all Automatic Languages listed in their racial entry

2) When you chose your Nationality you chose 1 native language, see table 2-6 for a list of native languages.
— What if your nation only have 1 language (e.g., Altheria, Coryani Empire) and you already get it from your race? Do you lose out on this language choice, or can you pick any available language?

3) After hero creation the character gains an additional number of languages equal to their passive logic, 1 of which must also be from their nation’s list of languages.
— Again, what if you already know all your national languages — having learned them from your Race or Home Nation choice? Do you miss out on one of the picks here, or can you just choose from the list of available languages?

4) If the hero starts with ranks in linguistics they gain an additional language, 2 if they start with 3 ranks or more.

I think this is fine with some further clarifications. Personally, I’d answer your questions as follows:
2) If your nation only has 1 language and it was granted by your race, you lose this one.
3) If your nation only has 1-2 languages, then your passive Logic languages can all be any language.

Q: How to characters acquire their starting languages?

A: there are four steps in character creation which the character acquires languages.
1) Race: A character gains all Automatic Languages listed in their racial entry, if their race lists national, they only receive one national language
2) When you chose your Nationality you chose 1 native language, If your character already knows all of their national languages, this language is lost, see table 2-6 for a list of native languages.
3) After hero creation the character gains an additional number of languages equal to their passive logic, 1 of which must also be from their nation’s list of languages, If your character already knows all of their national languages, you may pick any language.
4) If the hero starts with ranks in linguistics they gain an additional language, 2 if they start with 3 ranks or more.

wording suggestions in bold

Q: How to characters acquire their starting languages?

A: there are four steps in character creation which the character acquires languages.
1) Race: A character gains all Automatic Languages listed in their racial entry, if their race lists national, they only receive one national language
2) When you chose your Nationality you chose 1 native language, see table 2-6 for a list of native languages.
3) After hero creation the character gains an additional number of languages equal to their passive logic, 1 of which must also be from their nation’s list of languages.
4) If the hero starts with ranks in linguistics they gain an additional language, 2 if they start with 3 ranks or more.

Q: What if I need to pick “a National Language” in steps 2 and 3 of the revised language selection rules?
A: you pick a related language from Table 2-16 ARPG. a Related language is a language that is a parent, or shares the same parent or is descended from a particular language. If there are no languages selections you can take you may pick any language.

For Example a Cody the val’Virdan is from the Coryani Empire,
Step 1 Cody would get High Coryani and Low Coryani
Step 2, since he already has all of his national languages, he could select from High Coryani, Milandisian, or Cancerese, He chooses Milandisian.
Step 3 Cody is faced with the same choice and chooses Cancerese.

wording suggestions in bold

As much as I love languages for my characters, I’m fine with losing a language. ‘Tis how the Cookie crumbles.
For all my arguing in the past, I agree with Cody.

Oh hush, it’s not THAT surprising… What I was against was being dictated what my characters HAD to take, when there were logical arguments against it. In this particular case, it’s like the unfortunate doubling up on untiered talents due to archtype / race / background / path choices – but less costly.

EDIT – ‘losing’ the language choice also prevents 1) additional page flipping and 2) lack of choices arguments – since all ‘tongues of man’ are in the tree with Altharin, and that covers far more languages in the tree than any other tree.

If Racial = National, you lose a language.

If Racial = National, you lose a language.The way it should be. Make’s sense.